Matters pertaining to size – or: size matters, as does distance.

 

Matters pertaining to size – or: size matters, as does distance.

Which moon is Larger? Which is closer?

I present a comprehensive analysis, reviewing available information from source books, art, novels, and a few other sources.

TLDR: 

2ed Guthay is larger and farther away.  The books and art all match for the most part.

3ed Mostly followed 2ed

4ed Ral is larger and closer, but the art is mixed.

 

For this effort I was largely interested in 

a)       descriptions that would tell the reader which moon was larger or smaller.

b)     art images that depicted one moon overlapping the other to help determine which was closer.

Disclaimer: I subscribe to the notion that Athas is a planet, similar to size in Earth and that its moons are similar in many ways to our own moon; that their paths, phases, etc. can be described with physics. I think that was the intent of the original authors and there is plenty of evidence supporting it. No need to suggest the moons are “magic” or “Athas is a moon of Guthay”.

Here are the sources that detail information on the size of Ral and Guthay.

Second Edition Rule Books

In the original 2e release of Dark Sun, Troy Denning and Timothy B. Brown were responsible for game design. The relative size of the moons is of little consequence to actual gameplay and were never specified in the initial game books. The most defining reference to the moons is provided on page 85 of the rules book in reference to calendrical cycles.

 

 “The endlean cycle is complete when Athas’ two moons, Ral and Guthay, meet in the heavens, a major eclipse that occurs once every 11 years.”

 

Although the Dark Sun Campaign Setting (DSCS) book does talk about an “eclipse” occurring every 11 years, no other real detail is provided in the text of the rule books. It doesn’t mention what the eclipse really is, solar or lunar. Other rulebook material that followed largely left any details of the moon undefined.

 

Troy Denning               

The first written description of the moons by author Troy Denning described the size of the moons in chapter 13 of his 1992 book Crimson Legion, part of the Prism Pentad series. There he wrote:

“Guthay, the larger of Athas's flaxen moons, lit the southern sides of the cinder heaps in brilliant yellow light. The northern sides, lit by smaller Ral, seemed almost dark by comparison, with a pale, milky glow washing over their gentle slopes.”

Denning’s written depiction of the moons made Guthay larger than Ral.

Brom

The art by Brom frequently depicted a smaller moon along with a larger one. Both moons are typically depicted in a similar yellow color with no defining features to distinguish one from the other. With no indication from Brom on which moon is which, in several instances he did depict the smaller one in front of the other, indicating the smaller moon is closer.

In art it is only possible to tell which moon is closer when one visually overlaps the other. In real life, this could also be done by viewing their respective orbital periods. However, orbital periods were never provided. While Brom always depicted the smaller moon in front of the larger moon when they were in conjunction, he never depicted them with the smaller moon behind the larger one. Brom never indicates which moon is which, but by referring to what Denning had written it can be assumed the smaller and closer one is Ral.

I can find no images from Brom of a larger moon in front of a smaller one from 2e.

See the following images from the Wander’s Journal from DSCS published 1991

Pg 18, 37, 83

Brom’s classic Dark Sun art for the Verdant Passage showing two moons.

With the info from the original creators of Dark Sun, Brom and Denning, we get that Ral is smaller and closer and Guthay is larger and further away. It is possible for a moon that is technically larger to appear smaller than a closer moon, if the larger moon is far enough away. However, the depictions provided by Brom make it clear the larger one is further away.

Lynn Abbey

The adventure Black Flames, published in 1993, contained the short story “Service” by Lynn Abbey.  There she describes the conjunction of the two moons along with descriptions of the sizes and distances of the moons.

On page 5 it reads:

“Radis retrieved the scroll. ’By the light of the conjunct moons’, he read, ’the avangion cast its golden spell. … Ral will cross the face of Guthay in three days... If the avangion doesn’t cast its enchantment then, it will have to wait another eleven years.” 

The above passage indicates that Ral is closer than Guthay by crossing its face, with a reference to the “eclipse” that the moons make every eleven years.

Then on page 6:

“Ral and Guthay met in the heavens as Gelmin neared the pinnacle. He watched in awe as golden light shot up from the shadows toward the moons as they conjoined. The beam brightened momentarily, then faded, but others rose to take its place, growing more intense and lasting longer as pale Ral crept across the face of darker Guthay.”

And on Page 8:

“Ral was still within Guthay’s face.”

Again, both indicating Ral is closer and smaller than Guthay.

Lynn Abbey continued this trend in her 1996 book Rise and Fall of a Dragon King.  There, in chapter five she described it thusly:

“A pair of silvery rings surrounded the golden face of Guthay, Athas's larger moon, as it neared its zenith in Urik's midnight sky.”

And again, in Chapter 12:

“Big Guthay had set. Little Ral was alone in a sky of a thousand stars.”

Clearly, major authors/creators from the 1990s had the idea of small, closer Ral and a larger, further Guthay.

Other Second Edition Sources

Black Flames (1993) adventure has the most art that depicts one of both of the two moons.  Art is by David O. Miller. None of these images show one in front of the other to discern which is closer, but he always depicts one smaller than the other.  See pages 4,13, 16, 37, 38, 39 from the Player’s Book. See also the Cursed Dead and Hungry Bodies monster insert on page 14 of “Service.”

Dragon’s Crown (1993) has Brom’s belgoi picture ‘Enchanter’ with the smaller moon, Ral, in front of the larger moon, prominently displayed on the cover of book two of the adventure, Road of Fire.  And Page 17 has Baxa depicting two moons in the background, one large, one small.

The revised 2^nd edition Dark Sun Campaign Setting (1995) mostly repeated the same information on the moons leaving specific details out. However, it did include a large three-page foldout image by Stephen A. Daniele depicting creatures in flight with a small moon in front of a larger moon in the background. Indicating the smaller moon is closer.

The revised edition resulted in the publication of Mind Lords of the Last Sea (1996) which included art similar to the image in the Campaign Setting. This art shows the two moons prominently on the front cover and is attributed to Maren and Alan Pollack.

Magazines

Dragon Magazine #173 (1991) was the TSR’s introduction to the world of Athas through their magazine. The front cover is plastered with Brom’s colored artwork titled ‘Enchanter’. This is the one with the belgoi and two conjunct moons; the smaller overlapping the larger. It also includes the same Brom image from pg 37 of the Wanderer’s Journal of the moons behind a tower.

Dragon Magazine #185 (1992) Just when I thought I had reviewed all 2e sources, I stumbled upon this gem. So far, all 2e authors and artists I could find mostly agreed on the size aspects of the moons in 2e material, (or at least hadn’t provided anything contradictory) but I stumbled upon the short story Water and Ashes in Dragon Magazine article 185 from September 1992. On page 34 is an accompanying picture by Kevin Ward clearly intended to go along with the story. In the background are the two moons, neither is named, but the smaller moon is slightly behind the larger. This is the only reference to of a smaller moon behind the larger one from 2^nd ed era material.

Dragon Magazine #220 (1995) contained an article by Bill Slavicsek addressing the upcoming revised edition of the Dark Sun boxed set, as described above. An image by Stephen Daniele appears in the background showing ariel combat with the two moons, a smaller one in front of a larger one.

Second edition was fairly consistent with keeping the smaller moon in front of the larger, with most artists and writers in agreement, except for Kevin Ward’s single image. I wasn’t able to find any other mention or reference of moon size in the remaining 2^nd Ed. Dark Sun products. The line had ended in 1996.

A side mention.

Though not an officially released by TSR or WoTC a computer program known as “The Merchant Calendar” was released in 2000 which followed the convention used in 2^nd edition. The program details some of the aspects of the moons that were mentioned in the previous rule books like eclipses and calendars. It also worked in aspects that were never detailed out, like synodic periods (phases) and apparent size compared to the sun; and is an awesome tool for people interested in how moonlight changes from day to day with two moons.  The original site is no longer running but the program can be found on the Athas dot org website.

 The program ssows smaller Ral and larger Guthay

 

Third Edition

Paizo

 In 2004 Paizo Publishing released four different articles on Dark Sun in Dragon Magazines 315, and 319 and in Dungeon Magazines 110 and 111. Later, Dragon Magazine 339 (2006) was also released with Dark Sun information. These articles really did not detail any information pertaining to the moons. Nor did they have images of the moons. Little in the articles themselves lets a reader know Athas has two moons except for The Dark Sun DM’s Guide from Dungeon 110. There we find a few references to Draj’s Temple of Two Moons and a small reference to moon worship required by Tectuktitlay. “He established temples to himself across the city and made faith in Tectuktitlay and the twin moons mandatory.” But no other defining features of the moons from a canon perspective.

 In fact, in all of these articles the only mention of the words “Ral” or “Guthay” appear in reverences to names in the Endlean cycles. Granted, these articles are meant to be an introduction to the world and the number of moons, or their sizes, or names has little to no impact on gameplay. Unless the DM and players referred to 2^nd ed source mentioned above, Denning’s books, books from 2e, art from Brom, or other outside sources, there would be little way of knowing Athas has two moons, their names, or sizes. Of course, the DM is always allowed to fill out this space.

 

Athas Dot Org

Third edition of Dark Sun by Athas.org did not specifically detail the sizes of the moons in the campaign setting rule book, and mostly rehashed the language used in second edition. However, in Trade Lords, published in 2007, rules for moonlight on page 16 were provided along with synodic periods (phases) of each moon with Ral at 25 days and Guthay at 15 days. Though not specifically called out which is closer, this would place Ral further away than Guthay under known laws of physics. But since laws of physics are often ignored (Read: Magic) the physics involved can just be ignored like it so often is. These phases appear to be intended to harmonize the definition of a “quinth” a term derived from Abbey equating to a fifth of a year in her novels.

The sizes of the moons are not specified here directly other than a table indicating the phase of the moon along with images depicting the current phase of the given moon. These images in the table depict Guthay larger than Ral.

Another Athas.org product released in 2007, Faces of the Forgotten North, has two instances implying Guthay is larger and thus provides more moonlight. One on page 16 describes “The belgoi were unconvinced to the sacredness of the moon Guthay because its light makes it difficult for the belgoi to sneak up on prey ‘pah, Guthay almost bad as sun.’” Then on page 40 we read. “In each of the 75-day seasons, there two periods of multiple consecutive nights when Ral is at its brightest, and for most of the night, Guthay does not appear in the sky. The elves call these nights ‘the Feast of Ral,’ and it is the time when elves have the greatest vision advantage over most other humanoid races.”

The Terrors of Athas monster book, does include several new pieces of art depicting Dark Sun monsters and the like. Unfortunately, much of the art in this book lacks images with one of two moons in the background that was so prevalent in the second edition. I could find two images that do depict one moon larger than the other. However, it is not possible to tell which is the larger or which is closer from the images alone. These are found on the following pages associated with the monsters. 

Pg 148  Gray Silt Horror

Pg 172 Thrax

The adventure Dregoth Ascending (2005) has artwork on the front cover by Ravenscrye Daegmorgan that depicts the two moons with the smaller one as closer. They both appear to be full moons, the sun is also visible immediately to the right of the two moons. Although, the moons should be depicted as crescent moons if they really are close to the sun, the image nevertheless shows a preference for a smaller moon in front of a larger moon.

This convention of Ral being closer is also used by Brian Sanchez in one of his pieces in Part 3 of the adventure.

Fourth Edition

The fourth edition Dark Sun Campaign Setting rule book, released in 2010, was the first book to provide a written description of the size of the moons in a rule book. This edition went against convention of previous authors and switched the sizes of the moons. Page 17 reads “Athas has two moons, Ral and Guthay. Ral, a mottled green in color, is the closer of the two. Sages who have scried Ral report that it is covered in great green seas and mountain-islands of dizzying heights. Guthay, the smaller and more distant moon, is a golden orb mantled in steaming mists beneath which lie scarlet jungles and marshy seas.” Emphasis added.

Here, the sizes of the moons are obviously reversed from 2^nd edition, art, and Dennings and Abbey’s books. And colors are defined as Ral as green and Guthay as golden. With a reversal in these sizes and the descriptions detailed out in the rulebook, one would expect the art to mostly match this new approach. 

The first image in the CS rulebook that depicts moons in conjunction is the following by Emrah Elmasli found on page 44. Here we see a smaller moon in front of a larger moon. The smaller is closer and gold (Guthay) and the larger and farther one is green (Ral) despite the description on page 17 saying that Guthay is more distant.    

 

The next image is found on page 128 by Eric Belisle shows two thin crescent moons.  Completing the circle of the smaller moon would show that it covers the larger moon if it were in front of it.  So this shows the smaller moon behind the larger one. 

Another image, this one by Tyler Jacobson, found on page 42 in the Creature Catalog, contains an image of the smaller/golden moon behind the larger green moon.

There are other instances in 4e depicting the moons, but these appear to be the best ones that show which of the two is actually closer.   The Prism Pentad books were re-released around the same time as the 4e DS books, but the authors of the 4e material decided to go a different direction with the moons in description and depiction.

Final Words

Personally, I like a large Guthay and a smaller, closer Ral.  That keeps it mostly consistent with the 2^nd edition products.  However, more recently I have started to rethink this as I’ve been looking at planets their moons and trying to figure out how large the moons would need to be (diameter, mass, etc) to have both the appearances and orbits as described.  It gets complicated.

One way I would recommend “fixing” 4e to match the 2e version sizes and distance is to revise the wording of the DSCS rule book by changing a single word as below:

“Athas has two moons, Ral and Guthay. Ral, a mottled green in color, is the closer of the two. Sages who have scried Ral report that it is covered in great green seas and mountain-islands of dizzying heights. Guthay, the smaller and more distant moon, is a golden orb mantled in steaming mists beneath which lie scarlet jungles and marshy seas.”

“Athas has two moons, Ral and Guthay. Ral, a mottled green in color, is the closer of the two. Sages who have scried Ral report that it is covered in great green seas and mountain-islands of dizzying heights. Guthay, the larger and more distant moon, is a golden orb mantled in steaming mists beneath which lie scarlet jungles and marshy seas.”

 

Those are my two ceramic bits.

 

Below is a table that tries to capture a summary of major depictions of the moons

	2e DSCS	Denning	Abbey	Brom	Paizo	Athas dot org	4e DSCS text	4e DS images
Smaller moon	N/A	Ral	Ral	Ral*	N/A	Ral	Guthay	Guthay
Closer moon	N/A	Ral	Ral	Ral*	N/A	Ral	Ral	Varies
Larger moon	N/A	Guthay	Guthay	Guthay*	N/A	Guthay	Ral	Ral
Farther moon	N/A	Guthay	Guthay	Guthay*	N/A	Guthay	Guthay	Varies